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  1. #1
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    1 Not allowed!

    Never say goodbye, never say goodbye
    You and me and my old friends
    Hoping it would never end
    Say goodbye, never say goodbye
    Holdin' on - we got to try
    Holdin' on to never say goodbye

    As you may have guessed, I'm a bit of a Bon Jovi fan and one of their classic songs is Never Say Goodbye. Woops, wrong forum!! Okay back to SuperCoach.

    Now everyone has a Never Again list and a few SuperCoach players that come to mind:


    Now all things being equal, they are permanent SuperCoach scars and you (and I) swear that you (and I) will never pick them again. However, the funny thing is that sometimes "Time Can Heals All Wounds".

    I am not recommending nor discouraging in selecting any of Broughton, Newman, Adcock, Shaw or Cloke in your SuperCoach team, but I am strongly advising that you need to try to put the past behind and ignore all your disappointments. You (or actually we) need to assess these 'Never Again' SuperCoach players as of today on a case by case basis.

    We need to look at whether:

    • There were valid reasons for the previous fails or reason they are on this Never Again list
    • It is likely that you will be scarred again (Fool Me Once?)
    • Anything has changed in SuperCoach 2013 (price, SuperCoach positional change, real life positional change)

    If you look at the interesting poll result of the Broughton and Newman, you can see people are starting to warm up on these players. Naturally, whether people select them in their initial SuperCoach team is another thing.

    Pride is something very dangerous in SuperCoach (umm I'm talking about myself with Beams and Dangerfield). As even when there was time, ie mid-way or just over mid-way in SuperCoach 2012, my pride stopped me. To be fair, I had just won SuperCoach 2011 and I thought well eventually Beams and Dangerfield must stop, ie when Swan, Pendles, Thomas all play together, sure Beams must drop and that sure Dangerfield must be given a harder tag. Possibly a bit of pride and mainly because I believe they would sure drop. Obviously, I was wrong.

    People who know me will know that I used to think that Buddy Franklin was a bit overrated (sorry Hawks fans) and mainly because of his inconsistency. However, when Franklin started be more consistent I accepted I was wrong and Buddy Franklin was actually a SuperStar. I swallowed my pride and selected Buddy Franklin in my initial SuperCoach team in 2011.

    Buddy Franklin was not in my 2012 SuperCoach team and will not be 2013 SuperCoach team, but this has nothing with pride, but rather value.

    My point of this article is to suggest that you try to leave the emotional side of team selection criteria out of SuperCoach. For me, I would never pick SJ over Paul Chapman, which was a flaw in my Supercoach team selection. However, I've put the emotions aside and now intend I would consider having SJ in my SuperCoach team (well not sure due to his suspension).

    Chris Newman is purely in my team as he is priced so low, and yes he is price so low as Newman had a low average in 2012. But that does not stop me from choosing Chris Newman as I assess whether things have changed with Newman in 2013. I believe they have so will very likely have Newman.

    The Never Against List should stay the same if the status quo remained. However, if there is a change then that change (if material) should be incorpated into the decision making of whether to select or not to select a player.
    SuperCoach:  Winner (2011)  724 (2010)  188 (2009)  AFL Dream Team:  26 (2011) 

    Sooner or later you're going to realize, just as I did, that there's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path - Morpheus
    Let no man forget how menacing we are, we are lions! Do you know what's waiting beyond that beach?Immortality! Take it! It's Yours! - Achilles

  2. #2
    supergirl
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    2 Not allowed!

    Heath Shaw never again? How do you work that out? He's the top 2 defender in the comp even with having a few games out on suspension through stupidity. But hey Swan and Pendles and Ablett missed games but are they on our never again list?

    Shaw is a gun a pure downright gun (and no I do not say this cus I'm a Pies fan otherwise I'd have Beams, Swan, Pendles, Ball and Martin in my mids). But seriously Shaw should not be on this list, and if you are silly enough not to lock and load him then it's more score to me

    *disgruntled*
    Last edited by supergirl; 02-03-2013 at 12:57am.
      Quote Quote

  3. #3
    Dual Best & Fairest
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    5 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by supergirl View Post
    Heath Shaw never again? How do you work that out? He's the top 2 defender in the comp even with having a few games out on suspension through stupidity. But hey Swan and Pendles and Ablett missed games but are they on our never again list?

    Shaw is a gun a pure downright gun (and no I do not say this cus I'm a Pies fan otherwise I'd have Beams, Swan, Pendles, Ball and Martin in my mids). But seriously Shaw should not be on this list, and if you are silly enough not to lock and load him then it's more score to me

    *disgruntled*
    Talk about seeing things through rose coloured glasses.

    Shaw got him self suspended for nearly 1/2 a season for betting on football. To make matters worse it broke on a Friday after teams had been announced a most people had completed trades. Shaw was probably the main reason we now have what is.known as "reverse trades"

    He also has a reputation for being a bit of a "softie" missing games at bad times for what seems to be poor reasons.

    Don't get me wrong I had him last year and was pretty happy with his output, but I will not be starting him in my starting line up again.
    SuperCoach:  2263 (2017)  8447 (2016)  292 (2015)  3718 (2014)  3958 (2013)  731 (2012) 


  4. #4
    Michael Tuck Club
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    0 Not allowed!

    Think it's the ( fool me once ) theory for me. Have been let down by some players at times and it makes you think should you ever have them back in your team.
    Missy Higgins, body made of glass. never again. ( can play though ) Jarrod Waite heading in the same direction.
    Buddy sitting on my bench for 4 or 5 weeks late into last season when club says he is right to play, he will most likely come into my team at some stage.
    SuperCoach:  151 (2017)  2313 (2016)  1368 (2015)  57 (2014)  2419 (2013)  776 (2012) 


  5. #5
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    0 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by supergirl View Post
    Heath Shaw never again? How do you work that out? He's the top 2 defender in the comp even with having a few games out on suspension through stupidity. But hey Swan and Pendles and Ablett missed games but are they on our never again list?

    Shaw is a gun a pure downright gun (and no I do not say this cus I'm a Pies fan otherwise I'd have Beams, Swan, Pendles, Ball and Martin in my mids). But seriously Shaw should not be on this list, and if you are silly enough not to lock and load him then it's more score to me

    *disgruntled*
    LOL - Heath Shaw is NOT on my Never Again List, but as Deeman1 mentions below, he hurt a lot of SuperCoach teams in 2011.

    Heath Shaw actually helped me winning SuperCoach 2011 due to his TAB 8 week suspension, as I didn't have Heath Shaw. I actually wrote the Trading To Win (2) article and it shows how Heath Shaw helped me win SuperCoach 2011.

    Totally agree with you that Heath Shaw should not be on the Never Again List, but I can understand why some people have Heath Shaw on the Never Again List.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deeman1 View Post
    Talk about seeing things through rose coloured glasses.

    Shaw got him self suspended for nearly 1/2 a season for betting on football. To make matters worse it broke on a Friday after teams had been announced a most people had completed trades. Shaw was probably the main reason we now have what is.known as "reverse trades"

    He also has a reputation for being a bit of a "softie" missing games at bad times for what seems to be poor reasons.

    Don't get me wrong I had him last year and was pretty happy with his output, but I will not be starting him in my starting line up again.
    Exactly....

    As above, Heath Shaw is not on my Never Again List, but I can understand why some people have Shaw on that list.
    SuperCoach:  Winner (2011)  724 (2010)  188 (2009)  AFL Dream Team:  26 (2011) 

    Sooner or later you're going to realize, just as I did, that there's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path - Morpheus
    Let no man forget how menacing we are, we are lions! Do you know what's waiting beyond that beach?Immortality! Take it! It's Yours! - Achilles

  6. #6
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    0 Not allowed!

    Interesting selection of names but everyone needs to remember a 'never again' player will vary from team to team.

    Sandi for me was a never again player but if you look at the RMT thread before he went down, he was popping up in more and more teams. Not to say that Sandi was a bad choice, but he was a never again pick for me. The same could be said for Shaw. I can understand why people would not want to touch him but for me, he's definitely in consideration.

    Broughton last year was a never again pick for me until this year because of his change of team and presumed role change..and you could say the same with Newman. But i'm less keen on Newman unless i see him in action myself.

    Martin is the most interesting one for me. Was probably the most popular of all the never again's last year but appears to be the most forgiven with alot of people with him in their starting team this year. I'm sure i'll be starting with him on pure upside (and lack of forward rookies) but I would understand why anyone would be reluctant.
    SuperCoach:  1,895 (2017)  4,853 (2016)  5,202 (2015)  479 (2014)  7,684 (2013) 

    Highest overall ranking: 18th (Rd 18, 2014)

  7. #7
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    0 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Creeker View Post
    Think it's the ( fool me once ) theory for me. Have been let down by some players at times and it makes you think should you ever have them back in your team.
    Missy Higgins, body made of glass. never again. ( can play though ) Jarrod Waite heading in the same direction.
    Buddy sitting on my bench for 4 or 5 weeks late into last season when club says he is right to play, he will most likely come into my team at some stage.
    Haha forgot about Higgins. Boy, does he promise but rarely deliver. No matter what year it is, what stage of the season, he just looks like he is great value with huge upside. Never again.
    SuperCoach:  1,895 (2017)  4,853 (2016)  5,202 (2015)  479 (2014)  7,684 (2013) 

    Highest overall ranking: 18th (Rd 18, 2014)

  8. #8
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    7 Not allowed!

    Bon Jovi hey..... better crank that volume up loud!!!!


    Shot through the heart,
    And you're to blame
    Darling, you give love
    A bad name.

    A premium's score is what you sell
    You promise me heaven and put me through hell.
    The allure of points got a hold on me
    When passion's a prison you can't break free.

    OH! You're a promised gun ... yeah
    OH! But there's now nowhere to run
    No one can save me, the damage is done!

    Shot through the heart,
    And you're to blame
    You give love a bad name
    I play my part, and you play your dud game
    You give love a bad name.
    You give love a bad name.

    Your allowed to run loose in the backline
    But you murder the ball, it's an absolute crime
    A supercoach dream, you could score so high
    Your very first kick, out on the full, was your first goodbye.

    WHOA! You're a promised gun
    WHOA! But now there's nowhere to run
    No one can save me the damage is done.

    Shot through the heart,
    And you're to blame
    You give love a bad name
    I play my part, and you play your dud game
    You give love a bad name.
    You give love...
    SuperCoach:  6722 (2016)  2918 (2015)  9183 (2014)  10450 (2013)  1371 (2012)  96 (2011)  74 (2010)  3366 (2009)  329 (2008)  11 (2007)  334 (2006) 


  9. #9
    Michael Tuck Club
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    0 Not allowed!

    Very very good Philzsay. Love your'e work.
    SuperCoach:  151 (2017)  2313 (2016)  1368 (2015)  57 (2014)  2419 (2013)  776 (2012) 


  10. #10
    300 Games Club
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    0 Not allowed!

    Your fooling yourself to say that Heath Shaw has ever burnt anything on the football field. He may have made personal mistakes, but at least your could trade around those.

    Year Games Average
    2005 6 72.0
    2006 21 100.7
    2007 22 106.3
    2008 18 91.5
    2009 18 94.7
    2010 19 90.2
    2011 14 100.9
    2012 18 101.2
    SuperCoach:  1132 (2014)  1339 (2013) 


  11. #11
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    0 Not allowed!

    Gee hes missed alot of games...alot more than i remembered. Does anyone recall if they were suspensions, injuries or restings?

    Definitely reconsidering having him now.
    SuperCoach:  1,895 (2017)  4,853 (2016)  5,202 (2015)  479 (2014)  7,684 (2013) 


  12. #12
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    0 Not allowed!

    Haha like it philzsay. Have the sudden urge to listen to a bit of bon jovi now!
    SuperCoach:  1,895 (2017)  4,853 (2016)  5,202 (2015)  479 (2014)  7,684 (2013) 


  13. #13
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    2 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairy View Post
    Your fooling yourself to say that Heath Shaw has ever burnt anything on the football field. He may have made personal mistakes, but at least your could trade around those.

    Year Games Average
    2005 6 72.0
    2006 21 100.7
    2007 22 106.3
    2008 18 91.5
    2009 18 94.7
    2010 19 90.2
    2011 14 100.9
    2012 18 101.2
    I think that is the main problem with Shaw, the fact that he misses so many games throughout the year.

    2011 he was suspended for betting on games for 8 weeks. Other years as far as I remember the games missed were due to short term nigglng injuries, seems to miss most games due to hamstrings or resting.

    To me I would prefer a player who averages 90 and plays 20+ games than one who averages 100 but only plays 17-19 games.
    SuperCoach:  2263 (2017)  8447 (2016)  292 (2015)  3718 (2014)  3958 (2013)  731 (2012) 


  14. #14
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    0 Not allowed!

    With Shaw one of the reasons would be the timing of the suspension. People may have been short of trades and then you get an extraordinary suspension out of the norm you scarred.
    SuperCoach:  Winner (2011)  724 (2010)  188 (2009)  AFL Dream Team:  26 (2011) 

    Sooner or later you're going to realize, just as I did, that there's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path - Morpheus
    Let no man forget how menacing we are, we are lions! Do you know what's waiting beyond that beach?Immortality! Take it! It's Yours! - Achilles

  15. #15
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    1 Not allowed!

    It's quite ironic that I'm considering picking players that did poorly last season more than those that excelled.

    I was regularly annoyed by Broughton, Yarran and Dustin Martin last season. However, they all look under priced with 2 of them still very young and Broughton not under control of Ross Lyon.

  16. #16
    Michael Tuck Club
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    0 Not allowed!

    i love the passion people show towards their teams and players it s one reason i love AFL
    SuperCoach:  4172 (2017)  2154 (2016)  14,722 (2015)  9,800 (2014)  7,329 (2013)  14,077 (2012)  45,000+ (2011) 

    Beer is good !

  17. #17
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    0 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by IDIG View Post
    Gee hes missed alot of games...alot more than i remembered. Does anyone recall if they were suspensions, injuries or restings?

    Definitely reconsidering having him now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeman1 View Post
    I think that is the main problem with Shaw, the fact that he misses so many games throughout the year.

    2011 he was suspended for betting on games for 8 weeks. Other years as far as I remember the games missed were due to short term nigglng injuries, seems to miss most games due to hamstrings or resting.

    To me I would prefer a player who averages 90 and plays 20+ games than one who averages 100 but only plays 17-19 games.
    As well as the betting incident he also missed the last 4 games of 2008 due to a club suspension after he was involved in a drink driving incident where he crashed his car almost three times over the legal limit plus he further lied to the Club about Alan Didak not being in the passenger seat when in fact he was.
    SuperCoach:  6722 (2016)  2918 (2015)  9183 (2014)  10450 (2013)  1371 (2012)  96 (2011)  74 (2010)  3366 (2009)  329 (2008)  11 (2007)  334 (2006) 


  18. #18
    supergirl
    Guest


    0 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deeman1 View Post
    Talk about seeing things through rose coloured glasses.

    Shaw got him self suspended for nearly 1/2 a season for betting on football. To make matters worse it broke on a Friday after teams had been announced a most people had completed trades. Shaw was probably the main reason we now have what is.known as "reverse trades"

    He also has a reputation for being a bit of a "softie" missing games at bad times for what seems to be poor reasons.

    Don't get me wrong I had him last year and was pretty happy with his output, but I will not be starting him in my starting line up again.
    Why rose coloured glasses? Cus I'm a Pies fan? I will have him in my line up cus he IS that good. If he gets suspended I'll grab someone else while he is (if he does infact get suspended) then trade him back in. Missing 1/2 a season is a bit over the top and exaggerated. It's 2013 not 2011. Doubt he'll do it again.

    Maybe you need your glasses checked?
      Quote Quote

  19. #19
    Director of Coaching
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    0 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Impromptu View Post
    With Shaw one of the reasons would be the timing of the suspension. People may have been short of trades and then you get an extraordinary suspension out of the norm you scarred.
    You've got a great numbers/stats man in Rowsus. What you need for those type of things is a therapist.
    Have we got one here ?
    Play as Yarrawonga Wizards Fantasy Football Club in a salary cap keeper league and coming off our 2nd premiership as Pirates in FDL

    In Supercoach in 2015 ended about 15K in rankings from memory.

  20. #20
    Rising Star Nominee
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    1 Not allowed!

    Quote Originally Posted by supergirl View Post
    Why rose coloured glasses? Cus I'm a Pies fan? I will have him in my line up cus he IS that good. If he gets suspended I'll grab someone else while he is (if he does infact get suspended) then trade him back in. Missing 1/2 a season is a bit over the top and exaggerated. It's 2013 not 2011. Doubt he'll do it again.

    Maybe you need your glasses checked?
    I have had H Shaw in the past. Yes he does score very well. The "burn" is caused by the amount of games he misses from his own stupidity.
    SuperCoach:  1192 (2013) 


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